Discovering Dad - Latest Comments in Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

jnbammer — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:20:05 -0000

Hey Soap! Thanks for adding your point of view! This post and the corresponding comments have been awesome! Great conversation, great learnings, great to understand how other dads/men and moms/women feel about things. I feel the same way about spouses tearing each other down in public (or private, but especially in public). Thanks again for sharing!

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

jnbammer — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:07:05 -0000

Yes, mutually beneficial is super!

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

soapbox mom — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:40:50 -0000

Wow! Jeremy, looks like this post stirred up quite a bit of emotion, eh? Well, I didn't have enough time today to make it all the way through the (63!) comments, but I skimmed most of them.

Bottom line for me is that this is a great post and is an example of the thought and attention that you give to your relationship. I agree with BusyDad that it can go both ways (although my guess is that you believe the same). We agree that the marriage is a partnership, so I suppose it follows that all the points you've made are pretty much part of that partnership. Makes sense to me, frankly.

I especially like the "praise in public, correct in private." I'm often saddened when I hear spouses (either one) criticize or rip apart their spouses in public. I don't want to hear it, but, besides that, you can see the hurt in the eyes. Really not a good idea. For so many reasons.

The only point I'd quibble with is the sex as a reward. Just as we tell our kids that food should never be used as a reward or in any way tied to emotions, I don't think sex should be either. Just be sure to keep it healthy and satisfying. And, of course, open communication -- about everything.

Great job!

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

jnbammer — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:51:15 -0000

Classic! I'm so glad that Lori has never played games like that with me. If she doesn't want to have sex, she just says no without making any excuses. Thanks for commenting Lin!

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

Lin Burress — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:47:06 -0000

The subject of wives withholding sex from their husbands really bugs me. My sister in-law once told me a story of what my brother did one night after she had been playing the "I've got a headache" day after day.

He made moves on her and when she said I've got a headache again, he said "Oh that's okay! Cause I brought you a whole bottle of Tylenol to solve the problem once and for all". She never pulled that on him again. :)

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

Rudy Amid — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:17:22 -0000

That's it, isn't it? As long as we fulfill our needs, we'll all get along super fine.

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

jnbammer — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:56:03 -0000

I agree. It's hard to pick the exact right terminology on a site that is set in the context of parenting, yet deals with issues far beyond those roles. Thanks a lot for taking the time to comment and add your thoughts! I checked your site - awesome! I Stumbled it!

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

Liss — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:48:53 -0000

Awesome comment!

One personal caveat, a marriage between a man and a woman - no matter how well-partnered or how equitable - is not the same as a business partnership.

Wives, wanna motivate/ encourage/ inspire/ provoke your husband to being wonderful? Make him feel like a man. Every single day! (that is how often you want 'good behavior' from him right?)

Men, want wives who make you feel like a man? Make her feel like a woman - EVERY SINGLE DAY.

For a more in-depth analysis refer to Laura Schlessinger's book The Proper Care & Feeding of Marriage.

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

Liss — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:41:52 -0000

Maybe the "coddling like a child" thing also comes because you are using the words "mom" and "dad" I get the point - and I see how it's relevant to your blog - but referring to a wife as "mom" or a husband as "dad" all the time can set us up for a ride on the baggage train from our respective childhood.

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

Liss — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:37:58 -0000

So my husband sent this over to me, and I wasn't going to comment but I think I've got to say something now.

Kori,

Your opening comment is "why should you be exempt from stereotypes?" Certainly there's a stereotype about a slacker or stupid man which would understandably make men who are not slackers or stupid annoyed. There is also a stereotype of a woman who wants to castrate all men, she's referred to as the angry feminist, the flip-side stereotype to this is the superwoman/supermom and either one of these puts undo pressure on women. From your comments it seems like you are an angry feminist, I say this because your comments are full of absolute statements that contradict one another. As in "Never claim to be perfect" and "as one of those Super Moms who does it all" and "I don't want to be a supermom." Also "don't agree with any type of reward" along with "a parent should be reward enough." And I also say it because you appear to see no value in men - any man - whatsoever.

Clearly this hurts you on a deep level and I am sorry for that, and likely you won't be able to read anything but antagonism in my post, which also saddens me.

Frankly, however, I think you are off-base.

I used to feel as you do, and the fact of the matter is, everyone wants some kind of reward. Some people are motivated by sweets, some people are motivated by praise, clearly you are motivated by relaxation - as in, if I could just find somebody whom I wouldn't have to raise over again and I could just relax and let them take up the slack that would be wonderful - there is nothing wrong with being motivated by something positive. Some people become doctors because they are motivated from a desire to heal, some become doctors because they like science, and some because they like the money -as long as they're a good doctor who cares what the (positive) motivation is?

So if you're married to a good man, or looking for a good man, and he prefers to laugh with you, and he likes to receive pleasure from you AND give pleasure to you (back me up on this men), and he wants to take out the trash and clean the house up because when you praise him he feels like a king - what is wrong with that?

By the same token, what's wrong with a woman wanting to get some loving affection by baking a batch of brownies, letting him watch a game of basketball on Saturday, giving him some kisses, and in return he says he'll call the IRS for you, buy you some bubble bath, take you out for sushi, and put off buying a new video game so that instead you can have some new shoes?

From where I'm sitting there's nothing wrong with it. I'm happy. It stands to reason that you are not.

Though you may be right. And it is certainly a tough call to move from being right to being happy. I know, I resisted it myself, but after months of happiness who cares about being right anymore? I say bring on the nightie, the warm brownies, and an early bedtime.

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

Mr Lady — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:26:35 -0000

What? Because I am a cheap hooker who'll do anything for a little action? I knew someday I'd find someone out there who gets it! :)

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

jnbammer — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 03:21:33 -0000

Here's a link to one excerpt from the book How Full is Your Bucket that talks about the real costs to organizations when praise is not used at all of ineffectively: http://gmj.gallup.com/conte...

What's the difference between positive reinforcement for good behaviors at work and positive reinforcement for good behaviors at home? If 4 million employees in 10,000 businesses said praise was an effective motivator, then why is it not an effective strategy between men and women/husbands and wives/dads and moms? (Reward and praise are synonyms in my mind)

No rewards? I don't get it!

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

jnbammer — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 03:15:52 -0000

Who totally rocks! BTW - not sure if you caught it, but I nominated you to be part of a guest post coming up - stay tuned for more from my kick ass wife!

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

jnbammer — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:44:55 -0000

Your insights always shine a special kind of light on things ML! That's why you're one of my favorites - in fact, this comment warrants a special REWARD for you. Check my Links for Dads. I added a new section to expand my horizons and be more inclusive :-)

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

Mr Lady — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:33:50 -0000

Now that i have CLEARLY missed the controversy window here, I have to say this:

Your post is me and my husband, reversed.

Well, some of it. The sex bit, for sure. if he wants the windows done, he makes damn good and sure to drag me in the bedroom for an hour, light me a smoke after, and then say, "Dude, wouldn't it be great if we could SEE out these windows?" Works. Every. Time.

He busts is hump at work every day. I bust my hump at home every day. ANYTHING beyond that had better come with a really bangin' bribe.

I think it's great that so many women have taken the time to come comment on this post, and so many men, too. This is an important thing for the boys and girls to discuss.

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

jnbammer — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:16:41 -0000

I always steal your post topics - haven't you noticed that man!?! I read your post, and I thought it was great. Both were geared toward sharing thoughts in reaction to negative stereotypes of slacker or idiot dads. Everyone should read Joe's post and kick him in the balls for a while - mine are getting sore :-)

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

agoodhusband — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:10:13 -0000

Wow, Lori.

Jeremy, you have one fantastic woman. I wish all women were as quick to jump to their husband's defense. I also wish they were all as articulate about it as well.

We should all Stumble/Digg/Otherwise bookmark this post. It's a landmark discussion on relationships.

Sex is such a powerful motivator for men. Many women have a problem with this, and that's too bad. It's the kind of motivator that helps the motivatee as well...;)

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

Joe — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:20:38 -0000

Dude, you're late, I totally wrote about this before you. :D I like your list a lot. Stereotypes only hurt the ladies right? Makes them assume more responsibility if the dad is perceived as a moron, right? Its in the ladies best interest to recognize.

Here is my take: http://joeprah.com/content/...

If you want that can be my entry for the spotlight on dads. Let me know what you think.

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

Tyler — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:11:07 -0000

I'm feeling brave tonight - but women IN GENERAL have no problem telling us men what we do wrong. But when a man gives some suggestions, all hell breaks loose. We all like rewards (aren't we still kids deep down inside?)

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

Lori — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:06:06 -0000

Ok, ok. So no one asked for my opinion here (except for you, honey) but I'm going to cut to the chase and give you my summary of my thoughts on this post.

For starters, this post was created because I e-mailed Jeremy the link to the Today show segment I happened to catch. He expounded upon it, and put in his $0.02. It was not intended to be a personal attack on moms or dads, rather to challenge the perception of how dads are portrayed in the media and to make suggestions on how - as a parenting team - moms can improve the division of labor in their marriage.

I want everyone to think of two quintessential TV shows about families: Roseanne (which I personally abhorred) and "who's the boss?" So the Roseanne show caused a shitload of controversy because she was basically a crass, foul-mouthed lazy fat slob who challenged the historical portrayal of the 50's housewives on TV (the Stepford wife syndrome, if you will). I didn’t and do not expected all moms to be a June Cleaver. But, I hated Roseanne because she was offensive - even if she was slightly more "real" than other moms shown on TV.

Now think about Tony Danza on "who's the boss?" If he would have been Judith Light's HUSBAND - who filled the same household roles as he did as a "housekeeper" - people would have thought he was a pussy. Instead, he came across as warm and endearing and left many women saying "God, I wish I had a hot man living in my house doing those things for me (whether I paid him or not.)"

You know what? With or without a title or a paycheck, many of us would have a more ideal spouse if we ALL followed the "rules" of giving respect, showing appreciation, demonstrating common courtesy with "please" and "thank you" and if we discussed our expectations with our partners rather than just assuming they were mind readers. I don't know about you, but if my boss didn't let me know what he wanted from me at work, I would still try to do my best, but chances are I'd fall short of his expectations because I didn't know what he was looking for!!! That's not to say I wouldn't be doing a good job at what I did, I just wouldn't be doing the job he WANTED or EXPECTED me to do. Why would we assume that our relationship with our spouses would operate differently?

If I married a SAMF, then I shouldn't expect anything different. And I'd be a moron to think otherwise. But, if I want to make myself and my spouse happy, wouldn't it be nice if I let him know how best to do that???? Think about it - why do we make Christmas or Birthday lists? Because, people who love you who buy you gifts want you to appreciate and like what's given to you. If they didn't care, they'd give you whatever leftover crap they could re-gift. If you want your house to be clean, why not let your spouse know what your expectations of "clean" and "tidy" are???? Chances are, your expectations are very different than mine (and Jeremy's.) We are neat freaks and cleanliness obsessed, and if I come home from work and there are dishes in the sink, I go nuts (inwardly, of course.) But, because Jeremy knows this, 99 out of 100 times there are NEVER dishes in the sink….{yes honey I notice and I love you for it. That does not mean you’re getting lucky every night though. ;) }

In any event, most female posters were pissed about the sex comments. Well, put your big girl pants on and suck it up if you’re offended – he’s MY husband and I’m not offended so if YOU ARE - tough shit.

Guess what? Here’s a news flash (or not.)
Most men want sex.
A lot of women do too, but it is totally dependant on my mood, not my hormonal needs. If I am tired as hell, I’d rather get an extra hour of sleep than stay up for sex. (sorry honey but I can’t function without sleep, but I can function in a slightly bitchier than normal way without sex.) As a reward for being a good husband or dad, he may want the car washed, he may want to go to the fantasy baseball draft, he may want to meet the guys for a beer and a cigar, he may want me to make dinner when I get home. Oh, the horrors!!!

I won’t lie… I want rewards too. I am too damn self-motivated for my own good, but to make me want to do things even better, praise usually works just fine. For the “extras” that really make me happy, you know what I want? I want love for working full time and for being the best damn mom that I can be to my son. I want a clean house, I want a drama-free relationship, I want Jeremy to understand when I have to go out of town for work (like tonight), and I want a few hours a month to get my nails done or take a long relaxing shower. I also want Jeremy to watch Ty while I go to Wal-Mart by myself because – gasp!- I enjoy running errands alone because it gives me quiet time to think.
What’s so bad about asking for or communicating what I need or want?

Bottom line…. Let’s face it, if mom and dad are happy, so are the kids. If your wife is happy, so are you. Why not do everything you can to ensure it’s so?

And one final note: if you’re “involved with” or married to a SAMF, send ‘em to me, I’ll whip his ass into shape (and yours, too for being dumb enough to let him get away with it for this long.)

Ciao, and happy venting!

Jeremy’s wife

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

jnbammer — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:07:18 -0000

I would agree with you Ashley, if I could find an example above of me saying that I thought coddling or treating like a child was an effective strategy. I say don't enable; don't put up with excuses; expect equality...I do say don't nag; don't nitpick; don't throw him under the bus; however, I think those behaviors apply to any human being, so including them here is just reiterating that dads don't like it either.

You did hit on a key point - no one should have to be motivated to do the things they are supposed to do. You're absolutely right! This post has 4 or 5 disclaimers saying that it's not meant to apply to situations where the dad isn't doing what he's supposed to do, which is my mind is what a slacker or SAMF is! This post is about how to inspire a good man to do more, but I guess that I should have used a different word than "motivate" even though that is the right word for what I was trying to convey.

Others may disagree, but everything I've learned in 15 years of management and leadership positions on top of my personal successes and failures in relationships, teams and friendships tells me that behavior is influenced by both internal and external motivators.

If I want a direct report to repeat a specific behavior more often, I praise him or her, or provide them with some type of formal recognition. If I want my kids to behave in a positive manner more often, then I praise or reward them for doing things right. If I want my business partner to repeat certain behaviors because it generates a higher revenue, then I praise him and let him know what he's doing right. If I want my wife to tell me she loves me more often, I thank her when she does and give her the same expression of love in return. All of these things help people to learn, and the same is true when the reverse happens to me.

I believe that dads (people) know what the minimum expectations are for them in each of their roles, and they shouldn't need to be motivated to reach that low level of performance. When you get to a certain point, though, motivators help to push performance from mediocre to good and from good to great.

If people are satisfied with mediocre performance from dads, then keep on believing that the magic self-motivation fairy is going to show up and beat some sense into him. And, if others think that the only way inspire a slacker is punishment, then you're only using half the tools in the box. However, for those who want their spouse to be the best he/she can possibly be, then my experience says that it takes a combination of self-motivation and external motivation.

Lastly, Good point about the wife versus mom role descriptions. It makes sense.

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

jnbammer — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:37:14 -0000

Kori,

It's clear that this post struck a nerve with you, and I wish that it hadn't evoked such negative feelings.

I'm confused by the degree to which it upsets you though, especially when my exact words above are "Having said that, moms can inspire dads to take more initiative (or expand upon existing efforts). As in any relationship, though, some types of motivation work better than others." I never said that "you (moms) NEED" to do anything. This post is/was/always will be about suggestions and insights as to some ways to inspire a good man/husband/father to be a better man/husband/father in ways that I believe matter to him (us).

If you don't think you should have to do anything to influence your partner's behavior (either reward or accountability - remember, I did speak to accountability as much as I did reward), then that is your right and prerogative.

You say, "I don't agree with ANY type of reward." Wow! That is a strong statement that, in my mind, totally discounts the majority of behavioral studies related to influencing behaviors.

My grandmother used to say, "Do what's right because it's right and you will always sleep at night." I agree with her, and I agree with you when you say that doing the right thing should be reward enough. But, this post wasn't written about how to take a slacker and turn them into an acceptable man - it was written about how to take a good man and inspire him to be even better.

You are entitled to your opinions and perception, but I feel like you're twisting the message of this post to fit some other context. I don't think I can put any more disclaimers on an article, nor should I have to.

I appreciate you sharing your point of view with me and others, and I hope you will continue to do so.

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

Kori — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:56:40 -0000

I didn't think this was about sex at all, that just happened to be one of the things brought up. From MY perspective, it isn't the sex comment that pissed me off, it was the "This is what YOU (mom) need to be doing to make me happy." This isn't about men taking responsibility for their own behavior and actions in a relationship/partnership, this about about how we women need to be doing things differently, and THAT is what makes me absolutely furious. Not that we DON'T need to; I am not and will NEVER claim to be perfect. You called me a supermom, and I am so far from that as to be laughable; I don't WANT to be a supermom. But these things about which you have written are designed, as is too often the case in this world, to make the problems with men and parenting or helping out around the house to be basically the woman's fault-because we aren't doing enough to motivate you! Please.

What I keep coming back to is that in a mutual and loving relationship, rewards for doing your job as a parent should never be an option. I used sex as an example because as you said, that is what guys think when they think "reward," but I don't agree with ANY type of reward. Doing the right thing as a man, a partner, a parent should be reward enough. After all, isn't it supposed to be enough for those of us with breasts?

And on a completely different note but still about sex, I don't know a woman who thinks that sex has to be special every time.

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

Ashley — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:20:59 -0000

Okay, I agree with what BD says. If you had used a different approach instead of "motivator" for the "sex" thing...I would be more likely to agree. Husband and wife SHOULD be partners , and the original post seemed to paint a picture of a wife coddling her husband (to me) as if he were a child. And, that's where it sounded wrong to me. No woman wants a husband as an added child. And, I know you said SAMFs don't count...but I think that description of a person could be totally different depending on who you ask. I mean, what EXACTLY makes someone one...if you ask me you may get one answer and if you wrote it, it could be a totally different answer (as well as varying degrees of them). But, both men and women should not have to be MOTIVATED to do the things they are supposed to do, nor should they look for ways to get out of it, or try to see what they can get out of things (i.e. sex). And, just to set the record clear, here...I'm ALL FOR SEX. But, I don't use sex to motivate. I'm also all for doing things I don't want to do (sex isn't one of these because um, I like it.) because it is important to my husband...but the thing you wrote sounded more like a "Husbands unite " post with what wives should be doing for their husbands...not necessarily how BOTH partners should be stepping up.

And lol, I have to say this. A super mom is different than a super wife. You could potentially hold the title to both, but a wife and a mother aren't necessarily the same thing. My duties to my child as a mother are VERY different from my duties as a wife to my husband.

Just saying :)

Re: Dos & Don'ts of Motivating Dad - Advice for Moms

jnbammer — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:36:54 -0000

Thanks Jim! I was always taught to jump into the deep end of the pool, or was I thrown in there...can't remember, maybe that's what's wrong with me :-) You, and others, have done a good job of capturing my intent and put it much more elegantly than this apparent Cave Man.