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And honestly, I can't believe us dads have to deal with these stereotypes. Where are all the articles written by men about how their wives aren't perfect? There aren't many because we understand that we're not perfect so our wives shouldn't be either.
--TW
If you look at how most dads are portrayed in mainstream media, you see that there are usually one of two characters described: slacker dad or dumb-ass dad who tries real hard yet needs to be rescued. Now, by contrast, when's the last time you've seen a feature article or TV story that details the "general" ineptitude of mothers?
Yesterday morning, there was a post on the Today show website that really instigated this post - here's the link: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/24206284/ Why do #1 rated TV shows and their corresponding websites indulge these types of stereotypical portrayals, especially what it described on page 2 of the article?
Moms can choose to discount and perceive everything I'm saying in this post as complete BS. Kori did a good job of stating a different point of view here: http://korij.blogspot.com/2008/04/sex-is-so-not...
Or, some moms can ask themselves whether or not they want to take a proactive approach at making their man even better. Pick and choose some of the suggestions that you think might work for you, or try something new! If you are tired of taking a passive role in expecting your man to do more, then try something else. These tactics I described have worked for me, and it sounds like other dads are agreeing in part or whole.
I'd love to write a post for dads telling them all of the things that women want them to do too, but I'm not a woman so I'd just be guessing! Maybe I'll ask my wife to write a guest post about this topic to balance this post out - how's that sound?
(SO KIDDING.)
That's my inexperienced piece of unrequited wisdom for this evening ;0)
My wife read this post and asked me how many of them were inspired by her? I told her that no one is perfect, but she's very close to it as it relates to this list (then, I asked if we could have sex as a reward for me saying that :)).
Note: Please make sure not to skip Paragraphs 2 & 3 above. This article offers suggestions for moms on how to motivate dads who are NOT lazy pieces of crap, and the majority of dads that I know aren't.
Personally, I believe in the positive power of praise. If you praise someone for doing things right, then they are more likely to repeat that behavior more often, which is a win for you and him! In return, this type of positivity should be contagious, meaning it should generate some reciprocity for things that you are doing.
I hate to say it, but if you're experience has been one of constant under appreciation, then you may not have found the right kind of man.
In the same vein - I don't expect a "reward" for doing what I should be doing. But, as the poster said, praise and feedback shouldn't be withheld. A hug and kiss here, backrub there (mutual, of course) and physical affection is simply what both spouses should never hold back as a pawn in a one-upsmanship game. There's no better way for me to purposefully unmotivate myself to helping out is when I don't feel I'm appreciated. I know we're not in it for the appreciation, and being a good dad and husband should be reward in and of itself, but married life shouldn't be a constant power play. Show him you love him and are glad he pulls his share, and he'll be a happier guy, and will stay close to you.
Men should be rewarded with sex just for picking up their share of household duties and childraising? Um okay. Or, they could do whatever the couple has decided ahead of time because it's the thing to do and GOOD FOR THE FAMILY (caps for emphasis, not yelling lol). I'm just saying...it's really unfair. I work my rear off, and if my husband ever came home and was like...oh look honey, I cleaned up dog pee, now I need sex kind of thing...I think I'd run out of china to throw at him (not literally but I sure would want to). So, daddies, what do you reward YOUR wives with when they do all the things they do for your family?
And, I really have yet to meet ONE woman who ENJOYS cleaning. I'm sure a few exist, I've just never met them. I clean because I hate living in grossness, so I don't want to go there. But I don't enjoy it. I'd rather go play doing whatever hobbies I may have. But, I don't.
And, also...some wives don't withold sex to get their man to do something...but some wives are just too pissed off to even want to be close to their guy after he's been an ass. ya know? I know some people withhold...but that's a huge generalization to put on all wives.
Just saying...
You brought up a good question too - what do dads do to reward wives for the things they do for your family?
For me, I like to: clean the entire house so she can relax; buy her flowers and write her a nice note; say 'Thank You' for the things that she does; tell her that she's beautiful; say 'I love you' every day, more than once, and mean it; please her (if you know what I mean? - although it's kind of hard when she's 7 months pregnant!); actively listen to her; and, verbally let her know when I recognize that she has done something nice for me or our family.
This is on top of striving to be an equal partner, good husband and active father. I treat her how I want to be treated, with respect and dignity.
So what are you trying to say?
Just kidding....
I read half the article and he had some really good points that both spouses can use. I'll read the remainder at home. I need to get to work. LOL....
Bye babe, and thanks for sharing..you definitely are not a SAMF! =-)
I responded to Kori's post about this, but on reflection the point is better made here, where I'm not preaching to the converted, as it were.
Let the unpopularity commence ;0)
Personally, and I can't stress that enough - Personally, the concept of needing motivation or reward for being what you agreed to be when you became partners is unfathomable to me.
I want my wife to be proud of me, I want to be a good husband/man/father/person whatever 'for' & 'with' her, and not 'because' of her or what I can get from her.
She's not something that needs appeasing, just a partner, in the true sense of the word.
I won't pretend we both don't slip on occasion, but I must say I would be more than slightly ashamed of myself and her if we let it become the norm.
I want to be able to look myself in the mirror in the morning with a clear conscience and not be wondering what I can 'get away with today'.
That for me is not what being a man is about
It's very possible I missed the intention of this post, and I should take it as a tongue in cheek 'all guys together' post, but in case I haven't, I must nail my colours to the mast. My gut has spoken ;0)
All that aside, good work with the site, keep it up.
All the best.
Having said that, I'm proud of myself for what I do, including writing this post. It's honest, and it does not condone anything short of what I believe to be a good partnership. I am a self-motivated guy, but I'm also motivated by others, including my wife. I don't see anything wrong with that, and I don't think it's wrong for me to want to tell her what works for me and what doesn't. I want her to do the same for me - tell me! I'm not stupid, but I'm also not a mindreader.
I really appreciate you having the courage to disagree agreeably! It only helps to further the dialogue in a positive manner.
Thanks for the encouragement on the site - your words motivate me to work even harder at it (see what I mean - external motivation is a positive thing between friends, why not between spouses)!?!
Not once did this article mention that slacker dads should be spoiled and given sex first...but we dads that are GOOD (if not great) dads should be given a little extra attention. We are stuck in a hard place because since we are good dads, moms just say "Well - you're not doing enough" and if we were slackers, then moms would say "Well - I give up...he never does anything".
It all boils down to communication between husbands and wives. If we don’t know what’s expected of us, how can either one of us make the other one happy?
From what I'm told, most women want sex to be special every time it happens, so for me to suggest that it could be used as a reward objectifies it in some people's minds. I understand that point of view; however, most men that I know don't view sex the same way that women do, and herein lies a problem.
If women don't want to use sex as a reward for a loving, good husband, then don't do it. Simple as that. Tell him how you feel about sex, and find another way to reward him, if you feel like this general strategy will produce good results. I like it when my wife says 'Thank You,' and I appreciate it when she does spontaneous things to let me know she cares. I'm not a touchy-feely-sensitive-type guy though, and yes, my body does still produce testosterone. So, keeping those things in mind, I'm gonna be honest and say that sex is still the best reward my wife can give me. It doesn't mean that I'm advocating wham-bam-thank you-ma'am, but it does mean that sex is spontaneous at times and never used against me as a weapon.
What am I missing here? As Tyler said, it's not like I'm sex up the slackers!
Sidenote: this is turning into one of the best dialogues I've had on a blog yet! Feel free to jump in and contribute your thoughts!
What I keep coming back to is that in a mutual and loving relationship, rewards for doing your job as a parent should never be an option. I used sex as an example because as you said, that is what guys think when they think "reward," but I don't agree with ANY type of reward. Doing the right thing as a man, a partner, a parent should be reward enough. After all, isn't it supposed to be enough for those of us with breasts?
And on a completely different note but still about sex, I don't know a woman who thinks that sex has to be special every time.
It's clear that this post struck a nerve with you, and I wish that it hadn't evoked such negative feelings.
I'm confused by the degree to which it upsets you though, especially when my exact words above are "Having said that, moms can inspire dads to take more initiative (or expand upon existing efforts). As in any relationship, though, some types of motivation work better than others." I never said that "you (moms) NEED" to do anything. This post is/was/always will be about suggestions and insights as to some ways to inspire a good man/husband/father to be a better man/husband/father in ways that I believe matter to him (us).
If you don't think you should have to do anything to influence your partner's behavior (either reward or accountability - remember, I did speak to accountability as much as I did reward), then that is your right and prerogative.
You say, "I don't agree with ANY type of reward." Wow! That is a strong statement that, in my mind, totally discounts the majority of behavioral studies related to influencing behaviors.
My grandmother used to say, "Do what's right because it's right and you will always sleep at night." I agree with her, and I agree with you when you say that doing the right thing should be reward enough. But, this post wasn't written about how to take a slacker and turn them into an acceptable man - it was written about how to take a good man and inspire him to be even better.
You are entitled to your opinions and perception, but I feel like you're twisting the message of this post to fit some other context. I don't think I can put any more disclaimers on an article, nor should I have to.
I appreciate you sharing your point of view with me and others, and I hope you will continue to do so.
What's the difference between positive reinforcement for good behaviors at work and positive reinforcement for good behaviors at home? If 4 million employees in 10,000 businesses said praise was an effective motivator, then why is it not an effective strategy between men and women/husbands and wives/dads and moms? (Reward and praise are synonyms in my mind)
No rewards? I don't get it!
Kori,
Your opening comment is "why should you be exempt from stereotypes?" Certainly there's a stereotype about a slacker or stupid man which would understandably make men who are not slackers or stupid annoyed. There is also a stereotype of a woman who wants to castrate all men, she's referred to as the angry feminist, the flip-side stereotype to this is the superwoman/supermom and either one of these puts undo pressure on women. From your comments it seems like you are an angry feminist, I say this because your comments are full of absolute statements that contradict one another. As in "Never claim to be perfect" and "as one of those Super Moms who does it all" and "I don't want to be a supermom." Also "don't agree with any type of reward" along with "a parent should be reward enough." And I also say it because you appear to see no value in men - any man - whatsoever.
Clearly this hurts you on a deep level and I am sorry for that, and likely you won't be able to read anything but antagonism in my post, which also saddens me.
Frankly, however, I think you are off-base.
I used to feel as you do, and the fact of the matter is, everyone wants some kind of reward. Some people are motivated by sweets, some people are motivated by praise, clearly you are motivated by relaxation - as in, if I could just find somebody whom I wouldn't have to raise over again and I could just relax and let them take up the slack that would be wonderful - there is nothing wrong with being motivated by something positive. Some people become doctors because they are motivated from a desire to heal, some become doctors because they like science, and some because they like the money -as long as they're a good doctor who cares what the (positive) motivation is?
So if you're married to a good man, or looking for a good man, and he prefers to laugh with you, and he likes to receive pleasure from you AND give pleasure to you (back me up on this men), and he wants to take out the trash and clean the house up because when you praise him he feels like a king - what is wrong with that?
By the same token, what's wrong with a woman wanting to get some loving affection by baking a batch of brownies, letting him watch a game of basketball on Saturday, giving him some kisses, and in return he says he'll call the IRS for you, buy you some bubble bath, take you out for sushi, and put off buying a new video game so that instead you can have some new shoes?
From where I'm sitting there's nothing wrong with it. I'm happy. It stands to reason that you are not.
Though you may be right. And it is certainly a tough call to move from being right to being happy. I know, I resisted it myself, but after months of happiness who cares about being right anymore? I say bring on the nightie, the warm brownies, and an early bedtime.
And lol, I have to say this. A super mom is different than a super wife. You could potentially hold the title to both, but a wife and a mother aren't necessarily the same thing. My duties to my child as a mother are VERY different from my duties as a wife to my husband.
Just saying :)
You did hit on a key point - no one should have to be motivated to do the things they are supposed to do. You're absolutely right! This post has 4 or 5 disclaimers saying that it's not meant to apply to situations where the dad isn't doing what he's supposed to do, which is my mind is what a slacker or SAMF is! This post is about how to inspire a good man to do more, but I guess that I should have used a different word than "motivate" even though that is the right word for what I was trying to convey.
Others may disagree, but everything I've learned in 15 years of management and leadership positions on top of my personal successes and failures in relationships, teams and friendships tells me that behavior is influenced by both internal and external motivators.
If I want a direct report to repeat a specific behavior more often, I praise him or her, or provide them with some type of formal recognition. If I want my kids to behave in a positive manner more often, then I praise or reward them for doing things right. If I want my business partner to repeat certain behaviors because it generates a higher revenue, then I praise him and let him know what he's doing right. If I want my wife to tell me she loves me more often, I thank her when she does and give her the same expression of love in return. All of these things help people to learn, and the same is true when the reverse happens to me.
I believe that dads (people) know what the minimum expectations are for them in each of their roles, and they shouldn't need to be motivated to reach that low level of performance. When you get to a certain point, though, motivators help to push performance from mediocre to good and from good to great.
If people are satisfied with mediocre performance from dads, then keep on believing that the magic self-motivation fairy is going to show up and beat some sense into him. And, if others think that the only way inspire a slacker is punishment, then you're only using half the tools in the box. However, for those who want their spouse to be the best he/she can possibly be, then my experience says that it takes a combination of self-motivation and external motivation.
Lastly, Good point about the wife versus mom role descriptions. It makes sense.
For starters, this post was created because I e-mailed Jeremy the link to the Today show segment I happened to catch. He expounded upon it, and put in his $0.02. It was not intended to be a personal attack on moms or dads, rather to challenge the perception of how dads are portrayed in the media and to make suggestions on how - as a parenting team - moms can improve the division of labor in their marriage.
I want everyone to think of two quintessential TV shows about families: Roseanne (which I personally abhorred) and "who's the boss?" So the Roseanne show caused a shitload of controversy because she was basically a crass, foul-mouthed lazy fat slob who challenged the historical portrayal of the 50's housewives on TV (the Stepford wife syndrome, if you will). I didn’t and do not expected all moms to be a June Cleaver. But, I hated Roseanne because she was offensive - even if she was slightly more "real" than other moms shown on TV.
Now think about Tony Danza on "who's the boss?" If he would have been Judith Light's HUSBAND - who filled the same household roles as he did as a "housekeeper" - people would have thought he was a pussy. Instead, he came across as warm and endearing and left many women saying "God, I wish I had a hot man living in my house doing those things for me (whether I paid him or not.)"
You know what? With or without a title or a paycheck, many of us would have a more ideal spouse if we ALL followed the "rules" of giving respect, showing appreciation, demonstrating common courtesy with "please" and "thank you" and if we discussed our expectations with our partners rather than just assuming they were mind readers. I don't know about you, but if my boss didn't let me know what he wanted from me at work, I would still try to do my best, but chances are I'd fall short of his expectations because I didn't know what he was looking for!!! That's not to say I wouldn't be doing a good job at what I did, I just wouldn't be doing the job he WANTED or EXPECTED me to do. Why would we assume that our relationship with our spouses would operate differently?
If I married a SAMF, then I shouldn't expect anything different. And I'd be a moron to think otherwise. But, if I want to make myself and my spouse happy, wouldn't it be nice if I let him know how best to do that???? Think about it - why do we make Christmas or Birthday lists? Because, people who love you who buy you gifts want you to appreciate and like what's given to you. If they didn't care, they'd give you whatever leftover crap they could re-gift. If you want your house to be clean, why not let your spouse know what your expectations of "clean" and "tidy" are???? Chances are, your expectations are very different than mine (and Jeremy's.) We are neat freaks and cleanliness obsessed, and if I come home from work and there are dishes in the sink, I go nuts (inwardly, of course.) But, because Jeremy knows this, 99 out of 100 times there are NEVER dishes in the sink….{yes honey I notice and I love you for it. That does not mean you’re getting lucky every night though. ;) }
In any event, most female posters were pissed about the sex comments. Well, put your big girl pants on and suck it up if you’re offended – he’s MY husband and I’m not offended so if YOU ARE - tough shit.
Guess what? Here’s a news flash (or not.)
Most men want sex.
A lot of women do too, but it is totally dependant on my mood, not my hormonal needs. If I am tired as hell, I’d rather get an extra hour of sleep than stay up for sex. (sorry honey but I can’t function without sleep, but I can function in a slightly bitchier than normal way without sex.) As a reward for being a good husband or dad, he may want the car washed, he may want to go to the fantasy baseball draft, he may want to meet the guys for a beer and a cigar, he may want me to make dinner when I get home. Oh, the horrors!!!
I won’t lie… I want rewards too. I am too damn self-motivated for my own good, but to make me want to do things even better, praise usually works just fine. For the “extras” that really make me happy, you know what I want? I want love for working full time and for being the best damn mom that I can be to my son. I want a clean house, I want a drama-free relationship, I want Jeremy to understand when I have to go out of town for work (like tonight), and I want a few hours a month to get my nails done or take a long relaxing shower. I also want Jeremy to watch Ty while I go to Wal-Mart by myself because – gasp!- I enjoy running errands alone because it gives me quiet time to think.
What’s so bad about asking for or communicating what I need or want?
Bottom line…. Let’s face it, if mom and dad are happy, so are the kids. If your wife is happy, so are you. Why not do everything you can to ensure it’s so?
And one final note: if you’re “involved with” or married to a SAMF, send ‘em to me, I’ll whip his ass into shape (and yours, too for being dumb enough to let him get away with it for this long.)
Ciao, and happy venting!
Jeremy’s wife
One personal caveat, a marriage between a man and a woman - no matter how well-partnered or how equitable - is not the same as a business partnership.
Wives, wanna motivate/ encourage/ inspire/ provoke your husband to being wonderful? Make him feel like a man. Every single day! (that is how often you want 'good behavior' from him right?)
Men, want wives who make you feel like a man? Make her feel like a woman - EVERY SINGLE DAY.
For a more in-depth analysis refer to Laura Schlessinger's book The Proper Care & Feeding of Marriage.
Here is my take: http://joeprah.com/content/view/181/72/
If you want that can be my entry for the spotlight on dads. Let me know what you think.
Jeremy, you have one fantastic woman. I wish all women were as quick to jump to their husband's defense. I also wish they were all as articulate about it as well.
We should all Stumble/Digg/Otherwise bookmark this post. It's a landmark discussion on relationships.
Sex is such a powerful motivator for men. Many women have a problem with this, and that's too bad. It's the kind of motivator that helps the motivatee as well...;)
Your post is me and my husband, reversed.
Well, some of it. The sex bit, for sure. if he wants the windows done, he makes damn good and sure to drag me in the bedroom for an hour, light me a smoke after, and then say, "Dude, wouldn't it be great if we could SEE out these windows?" Works. Every. Time.
He busts is hump at work every day. I bust my hump at home every day. ANYTHING beyond that had better come with a really bangin' bribe.
I think it's great that so many women have taken the time to come comment on this post, and so many men, too. This is an important thing for the boys and girls to discuss.
He made moves on her and when she said I've got a headache again, he said "Oh that's okay! Cause I brought you a whole bottle of Tylenol to solve the problem once and for all". She never pulled that on him again. :)
Bottom line for me is that this is a great post and is an example of the thought and attention that you give to your relationship. I agree with BusyDad that it can go both ways (although my guess is that you believe the same). We agree that the marriage is a partnership, so I suppose it follows that all the points you've made are pretty much part of that partnership. Makes sense to me, frankly.
I especially like the "praise in public, correct in private." I'm often saddened when I hear spouses (either one) criticize or rip apart their spouses in public. I don't want to hear it, but, besides that, you can see the hurt in the eyes. Really not a good idea. For so many reasons.
The only point I'd quibble with is the sex as a reward. Just as we tell our kids that food should never be used as a reward or in any way tied to emotions, I don't think sex should be either. Just be sure to keep it healthy and satisfying. And, of course, open communication -- about everything.
Great job!